[Farquad94]

Hey guys, I have been gone awhile but want to get back into the spin of things soon but I want to talk about a possible problem that partially led me away from the server in the beginning and some other people can testify as well, the Alfar race/roleplay/and mechanics of them. I will probably edit a lot of this original post to fully explain my idea and solution so bare with me.

This may or may not be as bad of a problem now but it seemed to have been a month or two ago (whenever the Alfar were introduced).

Idea: The Alfar are not legitimate players as such Conch, Saya, Farquad, Tricky, Yellow and many others. They go beyond some boundaries and have in the past and seem to have blotted out the original fun of Role Play. My idea is that the Alfar are conflicting the server's future progression and story. Yes, the story COULD have been epic but many yet understand the point in them for the actual players who play legitimately. The Alfar have made it difficult for new players to have chance to make a roleplay for themselves and NO ONE can be an Alfar unless Admin or story related. They have NEVER been outlined of rules and lore on the forums and many times have abilities players cannot have. In the early days before the Alfar, I had so much fun quarreling with other races! It was all organic interaction with no over powered players killing without they being hunted as well. Just look what happened to the Orcs, it may be a coincidence, they were at height power BEFORE the Alfar and once the Alfar went on a blood execution and server wiping and making everyone stay in huddle holes, the Orcs were no longer needed and seemed to become invalid in story. Having a race like the Alfar in my opinion KILLED the server and is still making it bleed. Look at the traffic of new players... most of the its its the regulars. We need more players guys and a small reason they are not staying is the Alfar, at least that is what I believe. What benefits have they brought? Please say below.

Proposed Solution: The Alfar be removed in proper fashion or they should not be titled as players but an admin race that is clearly stated. IF the race is kept, which is should not, then stuff HAS to be defined in the forums: make a race sub topic defining rules and lore and purpose just as any other player race. LIST ALL commands the Alfar a have and be HONEST about it, plus all abilities about it. If the main admins want to be in the interaction of the server players than be something organic and not overpowered, the story is easy to create but execution matters just more.

This post is not to troll or hate on players its more of an address I want to make. Please refrain from LOCKING the topic but be honest and express your opinion just do not hate.
Thus far for this topic some rules have come to light about the Alfar.
Alfar Cannot Enchant
Alfar Cannot Brew potions
Alfar Cannot wear armour
Alfar cannot build out of their land, with the exception of redstone to gain access to vaults/hiding people, etc.. (And the dirt/sand thing that they share with their blood-relatives - Golems)
Alfar can craft up to iron, but can use anything, with the exception of diamond swords.


Alfar CANNOT Teleport to players
Alfar CANNOT play in Creative
Alfar CANNOT fly
Alfar CANNOT Spawn mobs
Alfar CANNOT play Vanished

I would like to also raise question to how much story line they have had to play with comparison to other players. I mean a few Deites were involved as well.

[Allpone]

Thank you this post shows informative opinion with what you feel needs to happen to fix the issue i have no problem with this post.

[Farquad94]

No problem, just waiting to see others opinions . BTW cant wait for the new race

[Allpone]

I didnt give my opinion though lol my bad.

I do not agree the alfar as a player (not admin) are over powered they are simple to kill if you can get ahold of them iv been killed by many of our players when I'm playing alfar as a player. I do agree however they need to join the list of races and be defined.

[Farquad94]

I do not necessary say the problem is that the Alfar are not kill-able because everyone is easily kill-able. The Alfar how ever do not play as a player always in combat. I have had personal experiences of immortal alfar fights and flying alfar.

[Tslat]

Then that's not playing as an Alfar.

The Alfar must play with the same restrictions as any other player does.
We DO NOT have access to any commands that would make the play any different to how everyone else does.

The fact that you've dealt with an immortal Alfar/Flying Alfar is specific to that person, and does not define the rest of the race.

You haven't been playing online at all since then, so you wouldn't know how they actually play.
Agreed, the way one of them was being played is very overpowered, but that does not mean the rest of them are like that.

[Tslat]

The reason it's not defined in the forums like any other player race is because it's not a player race.
The race is purely there to keep things interesting, and create new plot.

Orcs were removed because of complaints about them killing.

Also:

Alfar Cannot Enchant
Alfar Cannot Brew potions
Alfar Cannot wear armour
Alfar cannot build out of their land, with the exception of redstone to gain access to vaults/hiding people, etc.. (And the dirt/sand thing that they share with their blood-relatives - Golems)
Alfar can craft up to iron, but can use anything, with the exception of diamond swords.


Alfar CANNOT Teleport to players
Alfar CANNOT play in Creative
Alfar CANNOT fly
Alfar CANNOT Spawn mobs
Alfar CANNOT play Vanished

If you see any of the last 5, it is not being played as an Alfar.
If you think we have special commands or whatever, consider the fact that Faiyuki plays as an Alfar aswell, and doesn't even have ranger permissions.

[TigerHeart6]

I don't think that the Alfar are over powered. And it's not like they kill players all the time. When they do kill, they usually target a group, and it becomes a fun fight. The only thing I would like to see with the Alfar, is that they interact more with other races. I know that they're supposed to be evil, but I would like to see characters that are not so one dimensional.

Sorry Farquad, I'm not sure you have much say in the RP, seeing as how you never play.

[Allpone]

At the time of Allpone as an Alfar, it was strictly in the start of the Race and it was all story line based...The alfar haven't been played like that for 2 months. So don't worry about crazy flying alfar be more worried about flying dragons and spawning mob armies at random.

[Saya]

I think that only happen where ppl couldn't fight them is because they forgot they were in vanish or creative. i have no problems with the race as it is so far.

[Kathryn]

As a player of this race: Everybody else is right. And the main reason things aren't outlined is because of the nature of the race: Do you get all the information on the golems? No. For the record, Alfar aren't overpowered. Yellow's killed me (I think eight, now?) more times than I have him — so if you're saying the Alfar need to be taken out, then deity armour also has to be taken out because it's "over powered". I also wanna point out that no orcs had been on for days, even weeks. That's part of the reason the race was killed out too, I'm assuming. There are active players in the Alfar base.

[furryoldlobster]

Sorry Farquad, I'm not sure you have much say in the RP, seeing as how you never play.

That's a ridiculous statement, since he stopped playing precisely because of these rules.  If he can't discuss them, then he'll have no desire to return.  Besides wasn't he king of something at some point?

What about this 'they can only kill a player once a day' thing?  Is that still in effect?

Would an admin playing as an Alfar be able to track a player using any sort of admin perks?  A better question might be...what is stopping them for doing so?  I'd rather not start playing again only to be the victim of a bored admin. 

What are the limitations of Alfar teleportation (from what I understand its like using an ender pearl without damaging oneself)?  Dwarves cannot use ranged weapons.   Couldn't an Alfar just teleport behind and secret-smack the unsuspecting victim?

Lastly, post explicit rules lists for the Alfar.  A new player victim to them won't know why they've suddenly be killed for their blood.  More than likely, he/she would become frustrated and simply not play.  They won't care that its because the race is mysterious in nature.  They'll care that they died. 

Thanks

[Farquad94]

Tiger: I was around when about 5 people joined and actually long ago would have resumed the construction of the server. I do have a say and yes I have been gone but for some reasons outlined.

[Farquad94]

Honestly guys have you seen hardly any new people come on and stick around for the past few months? Not saying that is is directly the Alfar introduction but it sure turned a few away, a few good players...

[TigerHeart6]

That's a ridiculous statement, since he stopped playing precisely because of these rules.  If he can't discuss them, then he'll have no desire to return.  Besides wasn't he king of something at some point?/quote]

How was my statement ridiculous? If he had a problem he should have talked about it then, not bring it up months later when he's had nothing to do with the rp. Most of us are okay with how things are, if he doesn't play, then why should he be able to change things for others who do play?

[Farquad94]

Let this topic lure on the forums, you will see the problem be reminded to Old RP players. The problem still exists in the storyline as well, the Alfar.

[Obi42]

Besides wasn't he king of something at some point?

He was king of the dwarves, stepped down, switched to Elf, became a 2nd elf, and eventually became an Orc. All long after Alfar were introduced.

As I remember Farquad, you stopped playing due to work, school, and other games, since you were having a lot of fun on that plot with Tik before you both got caught up in other things.

What about this 'they can only kill a player once a day' thing?  Is that still in effect?

Yes, that is in effect.

Would an admin playing as an Alfar be able to track a player using any sort of admin perks?  A better question might be...what is stopping them for doing so?  I'd rather not start playing again only to be the victim of a bored admin.

None of our Admins that play Alfar use admin powers while playing. If we trust them enough to be an Admin in the first place, much less play Alfar, I trust them not to be abusing their powers.

What are the limitations of Alfar teleportation (from what I understand its like using an ender pearl without damaging oneself)?  Dwarves cannot use ranged weapons.   Couldn't an Alfar just teleport behind and secret-smack the unsuspecting victim?

It is exactly that, using an Ender Pearl without the extra damage normally associated with it. Talk to Yellow Goat if you want a primer on how dwarves fight Alfar, he's rather good at it.

[Farquad94]

I switched around a lot yes, all under permission as well. I wish to come back but my race went extinct, now lets see where I can insert that into my story... hmm...

[Allpone]

actually we have had allot of new players, who have stayed. The ones not staying are the die hard claytonia players (players who have been around awhile) who quit every server that has been out for one reason or another. Alfar stay or go i don't care ill keep doing my GM part. But one thing some players of Claytonia may fail to see is its been 2 months and the couple players that have quite are just now bringing this stuff up and every one knows who to talk to about ALL RP issues talk to Allpone. Don't wait 2 months and then go Oh i think ill now complain. that dosent help anything, if its a real issue then its to late because the players have already quite. You can PM Allpone or talk to him in TS.

Truth be told when doing an RP/Adventure, with events and stories and adding races and everything else that goes with it you are not going to please every person it just wont happen look at any main stream RPG the complaints about over powered char or weapons fill there forums. trust me iv played most of them even the new elder scrolls online is having those issues now and that's a multi million dollar company My admin team is 4 people.  If nobody says anything till months later we wont know who we have displeased or why they are displeased.

[Allpone]

   Farquad if you want to talk about where to fit in now that the orcs are gone you are welcome to talk to me. Orcs died off due to lack of interest in the orcs and players opinion on the orcs.. but who knows what the future of our ongoing story may bring.

Please keep in mind I think 300 was a good movie but out of the 100+ players we have had come and go not every one may think that it was a good movie in fact (e.g) Clay may have hated that movie.

we may never please everyone but we will aim to keep a balance where everyone has a spot to play if they want to.

[furryoldlobster]

I also left for reasons directly related to the Alfar (a couple other rules/events that randomly occurred didn't really help either).  Honestly, I'd really like to come back.  I do a whole lot of promotional work for Claytonia, and would like to provide more for the RP server.  However, I don't want to have a disclaimer...."watch out for admins abusing power".  Its another reason to explicitly state their rules in a specific post (like with the other races).

And Tiger (and Allpone now since I guess I'm slow at typing these up), there is no statute of limitation on issue/troubles a server may have.  Be happy he cares enough to bring up the issue at all.  It sucks that he didn't bring it up right away, but berating him for bringing it up now is nonsense.  Maybe there's good reason for waiting.  For all you know he's been dealing with issues or homelessness or even ham shortages! 



Thanks obi.  That helps a bit. 



Finally (unless more posts are made during this last statement), Allpone, you are correct.  You can't please everyone.  Just be pleased that people offer their advice (even if it might seem personally directed and a little late). 

[Farquad94]

I think complaining about it is still valid at this point. I can go on for a long time about complaints but rather I keep quite. I have PM you about many things but hardly receive the response. Alfar are still here and valid, the complaint is valid. Oh and 2 months is in addition to the week long shut down or how ever long it lasted.

Sorry this Alfar topic was not posted earlier, all though I did talk a lot about it before my leave.

[Allpone]

this is a game to me i don't take it personal so no worries there. Its not an attack to say you didnt bring it up sooner its just a fact.

[Obi42]

However, I don't want to have a disclaimer...."watch out for admins abusing power".

The only times admins are using their admin powers in game is while running events, playing NPC's, or doing actual admin duties. No disclaimer necessary.

Thanks obi.  That helps a bit.

Anytime dude... you're always welcome to hit me up on TS, if I'm not in a minecraft channel, I'm likely poke-able in AFK. Which reminds me, bug me when you've got some time, been kicking around some idea's you may be interested in.

[Allpone]

I also left for reasons directly related to the Alfar (a couple other rules/events that randomly occurred didn't really help either).  Honestly, I'd really like to come back.  I do a whole lot of promotional work for Claytonia, and would like to provide more for the RP server.  However, I don't want to have a disclaimer...."watch out for admins abusing power".  Its another reason to explicitly state their rules in a specific post (like with the other races).

And Tiger (and Allpone now since I guess I'm slow at typing these up), there is no statute of limitation on issue/troubles a server may have.  Be happy he cares enough to bring up the issue at all.  It sucks that he didn't bring it up right away, but berating him for bringing it up now is nonsense.  Maybe there's good reason for waiting.  For all you know he's been dealing with issues or homelessness or even ham shortages! 



Thanks obi.  That helps a bit. 



Finally (unless more posts are made during this last statement), Allpone, you are correct.  You can't please everyone.  Just be pleased that people offer their advice (even if it might seem personally directed and a little late). 

Abusing power, Once more that's hard to define. When your pushing storyline and random acts. If the event is to have EVERYONE run a dungeon or a Maze, Because that was declared from the beginning that random events happen in this server....Or maybe its to have a group or everyone on at the time fight 5 dragons (an event that has happen and everyone liked that one allot.) Is it an admins abuse of power or are they doing what was declared from the start Random events or attacks happen on this server and at the end when the players are Victories which they have been 99% of the time they get rewarded. Is that abuse of power.... I roll dice on almost every random attack (eg) when tnt falls from the ski thats a dice roll.....

[Farquad94]

I think that maybe the Alfar race should not have Admins in them period, it will always raise questions up. I never understood the roleplay behind TNT falling from the sky  since no deity seems to have a fetish for TNT.... maybe a disclaimer to new comers...

[Saya]

we've always had random events and what abuse of power do the admins do another than when they do events or something of the sort for storyline?

[Allpone]

It seems everything needs an explanation lol but that's OK TNT falls from the ski...because it dose its that simple its random and is to be random,......One of many good slogans for the server: Randomosity it happens!

[Farquad94]

It seems everything needs an explanation lol but that's OK TNT falls from the ski...because it dose its that simple its random and is to be random,......One of many good slogans for the server: Randomosity it happens!

Is not this roleplay though...?

[Zito]

Ok, I guess I'll chime in a bit here. You guys keep talking about issues with a single person and all that Jazz. That is not the case. While that may have been a problem, it was not the whole problem. The problem here is the Alfar aws a whole, AND the players who play them. They way they are played, as well as all of their rules, are why I quit the Role Playing server. I will list these in simple points so they will be easy to understand.



   1. At one point, it does not matter if this happened two months ago or two years ago, it still happened. Anyways, at one point, the one Alfar at the time was extremely overpowered. We would have killed him, but he was an admin, and he had Vanish on. Which, at the time, gave full god mode to anyone in it, plus Invisibility II, which is total invis. Basically, three of us Elves, Zito, Tokilin, and Saya, were on Spruce Island. We were attacked by the current only Alfar, who was named Note. Note, at the time, was played by an admin. This admin always used Vanish. I only saw their skin once the whole time I played RP. They forgot to turn it off, and were getting completely owned by us three elves. Except, for some reason, the Alfar with absolutely no armor, would not die. Why would that be? We weren't sure for awhile, then we figured it out, when Zito's dogs, about 30 of them, attacked the Alfar constantly, and he would not die. He was vanished. He killed all three of us eventually, and then teleported away. For awhile, when we were fighting him, the dogs basically gave him away, as they would follow him everywhere. Then Zito hit him with the Bow of Addison, set him on fire, and we could see him. Still, he didn't die. Anyways, what I'm getting at is that the Alfar are Overpowered. Sure, that was back then, bit that is the point. Now, or back then, they are still overpowered, and they will always abuse the power. I vote we get rid of them, once and for all.


   2. The Alfar were still completely overpowered and abusive of teleports last time I played, at the Human Wedding. Fight was all over, trying to get my armor and such back after all the dying and mix-ups, and an Alfar teleports in, and one hits me. I had full health at the time, and was wearing full unenchanted Diamond armor. Not sure who's it was lol.

   3. Tiger, please don't try to start things with Farquad. He is the former King of the Dwarves. Pretty sure he knows what he is talking about. He was on the server since pretty much the day it was made public.

4. Again, not a problem with individual players, just a problem with the Alfar Race. My vote is to get rid of Alfar entirely and bring back Orcs. Orcs were not Overpowered. If you lost your stuff to them, oh well. That's the point of Orcs.

[Tslat]

You just gave absolutely no evidence to support your argument that this is about more than one person.

Your first example was all one person, and has been talked about previously.


Further, I was at the human wedding, watching over as an admin.
There was a single Alfar attack by Faiyuki which failed as she stepped in sunlight.

Your death was completely unrelated, and was probably caused by the event which took place at that time.

Regardless, it is not possible for the bow to have killed you in one hit, as a bow has never been created on this server strong enough to kill through diamond armour in one hit.

[Clay]

Thank you everyone for your opinions!
I love the fact that everyone is so passionate about this!
Bottom line is the vote...VOTE NOW


http://claytonia.net/forums/index.php?topic=2532.0

[Zito]

Well, it did. She did. You are just defending an overpowered race because you like to be an admin and own players. Simple as that. Nothing personal, I have no problem with you, or any other person that plays as an Alfar. My problem is with the race. I would take orcs over an admin controlled race any day.

[Clay]

You have 1 day from now, 24hours, to tell us how u feel, then it will be locked.
if u havent yet...go vote!

http://claytonia.net/forums/index.php?topic=2532.0

[Zito]

   I find them over-powered, and yes, I'm aware they're a "story race". With some recent updates to the server, they've become harder to see with their swirls being reduced by some ratio to time invisible thing. I don't play to often when they're a problem, and even then I'm far enough out of the way to escape their bloodlust.

   I find them over powered because they have invisibility as well as teleportation. They also have the ability to place redstone in other race's areas. Something I thought was unique to Golems. I still don't know everything about them, ability-wise (I haven't exactly played as an Alfar and it's not like you guys will answer if I ask you "what are the limitations on your powers"). I hear tales of ways to rid the world of the Alfar, but even then I don't know how well that idea would work. It hasn't been done yet, and with everyone seeming to dislike them, it's a wonder more effort into eradicating them hasn't taken place. I'm still not sure if there isn't a possibility of them coming back due to divine intervention or something... Lutum seems to like her children.

   Anyway, that's my opinion.

Toki, a long time player on the RP server, posted his opinion on the ridiculous and overpowered race. You know, the one that ruins the game for everyone

I do not beleave the alfar are a good race for the RP server i think they are over powered .... this is how i think i would balance them out ....what do you guys think.....

Hey look, the Owner of the RP server, who created the Alfar, doesn't even want them. Imagine that.

[Clay]

Thank you everyone for your opinions!
I love the fact that everyone is so passionate about this!
Bottom line is the vote...VOTE NOW


http://claytonia.net/forums/index.php?topic=2532.0




You have 1 day from now, 24hours, to tell us how u feel, then it will be locked.
if u havent yet...go vote!

http://claytonia.net/forums/index.php?topic=2532.0

[Clay]

replies to other people's post are great and all but they are getting rude and we all want this to be a friendly place.
please tell us about why you want the alfar to be reformed or stay the same.


would anyone else like to say how the feel about the alfar?






Thank you everyone for your opinions!
I love the fact that everyone is so passionate about this!
Bottom line is the vote...VOTE NOW


http://claytonia.net/forums/index.php?topic=2532.0

[Obi42]

   2. The Alfar were still completely overpowered and abusive of teleports last time I played, at the Human Wedding. Fight was all over, trying to get my armor and such back after all the dying and mix-ups, and an Alfar teleports in, and one hits me. I had full health at the time, and was wearing full unenchanted Diamond armor. Not sure who's it was lol.

That alfar had logged off in the chapel, and logged back on right after the pirate attack. They were not teleported in. If you were in diamond armor with full health, you weren't one hit. It would've taken several shots with the bow or quite a few punches.

I do not beleave the alfar are a good race for the RP server i think they are over powered .... this is how i think i would balance them out ....what do you guys think.....

Hey look, the Owner of the RP server, who created the Alfar, doesn't even want them. Imagine that.

Don't cherry pick a quote man. The part before that is him saying that what you quoted is how another post could have been better worded. What you quoted was not his opinion at all.

[Clay]

The results are in!
The vote, and the discussion about the Alfar, is now over.
The Alfar are to stay how they have always been!
Thank you everyone who has voted!